Tony ([info]quikchange) wrote,
@ 2005-11-30 07:34:00
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Current mood: pessimistic
Current music:Sheryl Crow - My Favorite Mistake
Entry tags:economics

Peak oil?
Last night I attended a public lecture at Stanford about the end of oil. After a brief introduction to the conditions under which fossil fuels are formed, a pair of speakers took turns presenting opposing viewpoints. I took notes on my Crackberry. Here they are:

Doomsayer (Amos Nur):
Income vs oil use: all countries seem to use more oil as their standard of living improves.
Additional reserves only delay peak not tail of usage curve.
US oil use outstrips domestic consumption.
We will need other fuel sources.
After the mid-east, Canada and Venezuela have the most oil.
Oil wars are just skirmishes between oil producers and consumers.
China once thought it would be a net oil producer!

Capitalist (Steven Gorelick):
Malthus was wrong about food shortages.
Bell curve doesn't apply to chronological use.
Hubbert's curves were wrong.
We have been discovering new reserves faster than we can use them.
Sometimes domestic production drops when it is cheaper to import.
We have no idea how much oil we will be able to find in the future.
Price increases and new tech drive supply increases.
But increased supply drives prices down.
We also find alternatives that decrease usage.
We can increase GDP without a corresponding increase in oil use by being more efficient.
The world has been getting more GDP per oil barrel with time.
We are finding more oil and extraction is getting cheaper.
Under 5% of US energy needs are met by the Persian gulf!
World oil use per capita has been steady for 20 years.

We still need to worry about the pollution generated by burning fossil fuels though.



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[info]ramou
2005-11-30 04:11 pm UTC (link)
Hate to bash the capitalist, but many of his arguments are dumb. We "could" end all wars and treat our fellow humans, and all creatures with love and respect. That doesn't argue shit. oil use per capita? Is he stupid? Did he miss the MASSIVE POPULATION EXPLOSION? It is untrue that we have no idea how much oil we'll be able to find in the future. We know that it will be a finite amount, and that is not NO IDEA.

The doomsayer is correct, but only because the base argument is a tautalogy by definition. We *will* run out. The only thing worth debating is how immediate the threat is. I would love to confirm that we're finding oil faster than we can use it... something I have no info on besides the guy above saying so.

Lastly, you nail the other point good. Besides issues of consumption, there's the issues of the environment to be concerned with.

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[info]tangbu
2005-12-01 05:13 am UTC (link)
The guy I work for follows a lot of resource stocks, and he believes a) the Saudis have peaked their production, even though they won't publish figures; b) most of the world's oil deposits are already mapped, it's just a matter of economics when they'll be tapped; and c) countries like China and India are modernising furiously, and the process of moving from the 3rd world to the first takes significantly more resources than the steady state required to maintain your current level of prosperity. We've currently got about a third of the world's population trying to buy their way into the 1st world.

I agree that oil isn't going to last forever, and a good thing too. Oil is useful but an environmental disaster.

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[info]quikchange
2005-12-02 11:32 pm UTC (link)
Not quite; China has been sharply reducing oil usage per GDP unit even as its GDP grows so it isn't really increasing consumption at an alarming rate.

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[info]andytheace
2005-11-30 04:16 pm UTC (link)
Do we have public lectures like this at waterloo?

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[info]thewizard
2005-11-30 04:41 pm UTC (link)
I know we have talks up the wazoo, but I don't remember two Waterloo profs duking it out.

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[info]andytheace
2005-11-30 04:44 pm UTC (link)
where do you find out about these "talks" then?

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[info]thewizard
2005-11-30 04:46 pm UTC (link)
I generally read the various posters and billboards whenever I'm on campus.
Surely there is some school paper (The Gazette or Daily Bulletin, maybe?) that has a list of all UW events?

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[info]a_chatterbox
2005-11-30 07:19 pm UTC (link)
daily bulletin is a good source. there is also a calendar of events: http://www.uwevents.uwaterloo.ca/ and if you're looking for a specific theme of talks, you can check oyt department and club webpages.

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[info]alex_the_greate
2005-12-01 12:19 am UTC (link)
Don't get me started on why burning fossil fuels is a bad thing. I've been looking at numbers for the crap that comes out of power plants in Canada for the past 2 months and it's scary.

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[info]slatepelican
2005-12-01 02:13 am UTC (link)
I so want to listen to that song now.

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