quikchange: The UW perception skewing effect

Tony (

quikchange) wrote,
@ 2005-09-16 10:37:00

Current mood:	shocked
Current music:	Fiona Apple - Slow Like Honey
Entry tags:	academics, culture, life, philosophy

The UW perception skewing effect
On Wednesday I gave a talk about university to a grade 11 CS class at my former high-school. I was astonished by the lack of ambition and focus I encountered. Only a handful of students intended to go on to college and fewer still were considering university. Mind you, when I was in grade 11 I had no idea which university I wanted to attend either but at least I knew I want to go to one. And I don't mean to imply that university/college is the only way to go because the trades are just as worthy of consideration. However, none of the students I spoke to had given any consideration to an apprenticeship either.

What surprised me the most was that not a single person in that classroom was taking the course because they wanted to. Some were in it because it was the least horrible course that fit into their schedule, others because they had been forced to take it by their parents, and a few had been thrust into it by their guidance counsellors without consent.

Spending 6 years at UW has clearly skewed my perception. It seems most people are rather apathetic in comparison to the typical UW crowd. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, actually. If it's possible to be satisfied with little then why is it better to be constantly driven to greater heights of accomplishment with no real end in sight?

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thewizard
2005-09-16 02:45 pm UTC (link)

That's really interesting, because I was under the impression that UW students are actually rather apathetic compared to other university students in themselves! Although I'm not thinking about personal achievements, but in terms of improving our environment (socially, ecologically, etc...)

"We each pay a fabulous price for our visions of paradise..."
Neil Peart.

There's a difference between being content with little and just floating wherever you're mired. The latter may find their apathy biting them in the ass when life becomes too worthless to bear, but I don't know if there's anything that will show them that except for sickening personal revelations.

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	zedinbed 2005-09-16 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, I think that you generally assume the people around you to be more apathetic than they really are. At least, that's the conclusion that I have reached in most of our conversations. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	quikchange 2005-09-16 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	I don't recall reaching such a conclusion in any of our conversations. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	zedinbed 2005-09-16 05:34 pm UTC (link)
	I was talking about Gaelan. :) Are you talking about Gaelan as well? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	quikchange 2005-09-16 05:36 pm UTC (link)
	Ah. Oops! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	avian_lady 2005-09-16 03:29 pm UTC (link)
	I seem to remember from my high school days that most students like that weren't actually satisfied with little but just couldn't figure out why, or where too lazy. I think it's a bad thing, because if you're not striving to be somewhere (not neccesarily acedemically) than what are you getting out of life? (Reply to this)(Thread)

zedinbed
2005-09-16 05:23 pm UTC (link)

I don't really think Grade 11 is necessarily a place when you start thinking of where you wanna go to after school. That's partially why I hate how they took out OAC. People are only getting into thinking about post-high school life in Grade 12 and suddenly they're thrust into the world of university applications and scholarship hunting. The transition, of course, results in ugly results as we have witnessed with this past year's first year class flunking all across the board.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	a_chatterbox 2005-09-16 06:02 pm UTC (link)
	The reason people don't think about such things in Grade 11 (when I was in grade 11) was likely because we had two more years to think about it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

2much_thinking
2005-09-17 09:27 pm UTC (link)

They are actually too young to make "life" decisions because they have not experienced enough to really know what they want.

To know what you want means you have to have an idea of what is out there and even experienced some of it.

I would not assume people are lazy because at 15/16 they don't know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. That's a tough thing to ask. Especially when so many adults, I've spoken with many thus may statement is justfied, are actually not truly happy with their careers. Things change. As one grows their preceptions, patterns of thinking, intellect, etc... it all changes. This changes what you want out of life. This is all part of the process. The process is: figure out what you want and what you are supposed to do in life. That begins with figuring out who you really are. At 15/16, you have an idea, but you are actually just completing the final 5% growth in your brain (just released this past month) and an incredible amount of cranial interconnections have been established (beginning around 11).

What happens is easy to understand. You have a whack of hormones racing through your body (puberty), plus the most significant growth in the brain since you were 3, hence you need an insane amount of sleep, you are moody as all hell, and you are just starting to figure out what you like and don't like.

So now you are 15/16 and just finishing (in most cases) this massive development. You only now have some tools to really test the waters of the real world and figure out who you are and what you want.

During 11-15 you make interconnections within the brain, it has been proven that the ones you connect become essential in the skills of the future, and the others: if you don't use it, you lose it! So during 11-15, you need to try out a shit load of different things. Art, music, acting, math, science, hands on experience such as carpentry or automobile mechanics, these are all the important assets to this interconnection process. Watching TV or playing video games weaves certain connections. W hat? They did not say. But studying your ass off helps too. You develop ethics and responsibility.

The main thing is parents/educators need to understand this whole process of developement of the brain. It is complex as all hell, but crucial.

Hence, after all that, I can truly say that grade 11 is NOT the right place to make serious life choices. However, we can't convince our government, "expert psychologists", or parents of anything because they know everything (part of what was interconnected in their brains when they were 11-15). So what we MUST do is help the younger adults understand that NOTHING is written in stone and try things out. If you don't try you won't know what you like/dislike. It is okay to not be as successful at one particular aspect of life (say welding) because you will be very successful at another (say piano). They need strong encouragement and guidance to try things, to put in an honest effort (lacking from what I can tell from much observation), and not be afraid to try something new.

After all that, then one can figure out what they want.

I was 25 and I had changed my mind so many times. Finally I figured out what I was good at and what I wanted to do and I merged them, or am in the process. This applies to careers. Though I don't know what I want specifically, but narrowing down the choices helps keep many doors open and not seem overwheliming at the same time.

"Always learning!" Juniper Merdel Long (RIP) - my grandmother. And she was right, you learn until you are dead.

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	___cai 2005-09-16 06:34 pm UTC (link)
	that's really weird...i was picturing a highly motivated crowd, thrilled to hear you speak and hanging on to your every word, damnit! i know grade 11 seems young, but really, they should be thinking about these things... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	quikchange 2005-09-16 06:37 pm UTC (link)
	That's what I'd been expecting too! I guess you've been affected by the UW perception skew as well. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	starinthesky15 2005-09-16 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	My high school crowd was so different. Everyone that I hung out with, almost, was planning to go to university and was working hard to do so. My friend Chris went to a different school and he's the only person from his group of friends that went to university. I guess it's different depending on where you went to school and who you hung around with. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	quikchange 2005-09-16 07:43 pm UTC (link)
	Good point. I did, after all, attend HS in Scar~~lem~~borough. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	starinthesky15 2005-09-17 01:12 am UTC (link)
	chris also went to school in scarbro. hooray. i thankfully got out of that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	krabbit 2005-09-16 09:13 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks for the link you emailed me; leaving a comment is much easier than hitting "reply" on hotmail. (Reply to this)

yellowtangfish
2005-09-17 02:33 am UTC (link)

uwaterloo people seem apathetic perhaps about changing the world in "idealist" terms but they are very fast forward on personal success. when you get further into academia, then you might see some people doing stuff for the greater good, but a lot of people there for their undergrad degree are very concerned about careers, wealth.....
trust me- i see apathetic kids a lot. you get used to it. i guess that's pathetic in itself.

(Reply to this)

kinthelt
2005-09-17 09:45 pm UTC (link)

I believe I have a unique point of view on the "apatheticity" of UW students. I have attended both the University of Waterloo and the University of Manitoba as an undergraduate student, and as a graduate student (ok, only quasi-graduate student at UW, but who cares?).

UW students may seem incredibly apathetic, because they never make the news about protesting some war, or some injustice, or whatever. And student politics seems to be the last thing on any of their minds.

Well, here's news to you: Every university seems like that when you attend it.

I'm currently working on my Master's at UofM, and I can tell you that the number of students just taking a degree to get a job is much higher than the proportion at UW. Even when you look at the grad studies. In the department of CS, the only students who take theoretical computer science are UW graduates!

There's much more of a "community" spirit at UW.

Alright, and now to handle high school students.... Every class is different. In some classes, the students seem like slackers, and in others they are all highly motivated. It's a form of mob intelligence.

(Reply to this)

	tangbu 2005-09-18 12:16 am UTC (link)
	Tsk tsk, youth these days, eh? :-) (Reply to this)

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